LISTEN!

[SupastaR]

jayspee said:

Usher is a better dancer, no doubt, but i think that its a matter of opinion who is a better singer, usher's vocals have only been strong his last 2 discs, T's vocal talent is a lot less coached and more natural, Usher has had so many voice lessons its untrue. Both great singers, but i think the remake of Adore shows who is the superior vocalist.

I agree

[kunta]

jayspee said:

I see what Kunta was sayin though, because T doesnt conform always to what the radio stations want, he doesnt get a lot of airplay, this is why he doesnt sell as many records as some other r&b cats, but we all know record sales dont necessarily reflect talent.

Finally... an intelligent human being!!! (I was havin my doubts as to whether or not any of them actually existed on this site)

Yo... TQ is good... he jus hasnt been very commercially sucessful... especially over here (in the UK)

[Joshua]

Usher is the all-around image of what music executives want in an R&B artist... and it's been that way forever. I'm not a fan of Usher because his voice sounds so pre-played... like, all of his songs sound the same, except with different lyrics. His lyrics are "listener-friendly" because they make a generalization for everyone to listen to, but that doesn't make it as personable... TQ does just that with songs like "Bye Bye Baby," "Remember Melinda," "Relax," "Daily," and pretty much 80+ percent of the songs he's done. Music execs just don't wanna deal with all that personable stuff because it's too emotionally "me me me," which is disappointing... TQ's music should be what those execs are looking for.

And then we have all these rappers who do the exact opposite and come up with "me me me" garbage. Most listeners can't relate to ridin' on 24s, having gold teeth, or killing some dude for a gram or whatever else is out there. I'm actually watching an R. Kelly song featuring The Game and the part that The Game raps on (some of his stuff I like, but some of it is just like the rest), he recycles his rap lyrics from other songs and uses them for guest appearances on other artist's songs... T.I. does it, Mike Jones does it, 50 Cent does it, it's just disappointing from a fan's point of view to get the same recycled garbage. Before I found this site (3+ years ago... member for about a year), I was wondering why TQ wasn't a big player in the music business like the Ushers and 50 Cents out there. I've listened to a bunch of artists that I've thought should have more of an impact in music, like T.I., Mike Jones, Twista, and producer Jazze Pha. I listened to all these dudes before they started getting noticed and now that they are, they're conforming themselves to what all the other rappers rap about... having all this money and showing it off. I think it's ridiculous to have a Baby song playing in your car all loud and he's talking about riding Cadillacs on 20-somethings and you're riding some Oldsmobile Cutla$s with three missing hubcaps and an engine that won't stop smoking. Lyrics like these don't connect with anybody but other rappers; it's like they're making music for each other, not caring how their fans are living or feeling... TQ does just that and he's not given the opportunity because of it. If I was a music exec, TQ would be my first dude signed because I recognize taste. Unfortunately, taste doesn't sell... it's what the artist buys that sells.


-Josh

[kunta]

Yeh Josh, I feel what ur sayin... n I think 90% is true

But TQ's problem aint jus his Image

How about: Weak Production? I was listenin to Daily earlier & what the fu?k was that keybord noise in the background?... It sounded like a fu?kin child was playin it!

N What About Collaborations? His collaborations with Ja Rule & Big Tymers were his attempts at being commercially friendly... n they failed

But the main reason why he aint commercially sucessfull, I think: is because most people don't wanna hear an R&B thug... a Gangsta who sings (the gun shots at the beginning of Bye Bye Baby & Better Dayz were jus fu?kin annoying... sh!t like dat ruined them songs)

TQ's best moments have been where he hasnt tried to impress

e.g. Gone But Not Forgotten... that was a fu?kin beautiful song... the production was aiight... the lyrics were deep (n no retarded MC jumped on the track to fu?k it up... unlike: Hard Life - which wud hav been a beautiful song)

[Joshua]

Yeah, I get you on all of that. I think back when he made "Better Days," "Hard Life," and "Bye Bye Baby," there was more pressure on him to make something completely different (R&B thug-type). And when that didn't work out, they wanted him to be something else that he wasn't comfortable with (I read somewhere he didn't like how his old label wanted him to be the Usher-type, dancing and all that). So I think what was on his tracks had more to do with the people that ran the label and/or the people in the recording studio with him (like, whoever produced the songs and whoever else could persuade him into adding something or taking something off).

This isn't to say that I think ALL of TQ's songs are great. Of course there's parts that I'm not a big fan of (like the examples you gave) and there are some songs I'm not really feeling (mostly the collaborations with Cash Money, but I think that had more to do with who was the authority in the studio at the time... most times, you're not gonna beat out your boss for what you think/know is better). But music is music and we should all be thankful that TQ is still out making music AND touring. I mean, this guy knows where his largest fan bases are and gives them what they want (how many more people do I gotta get hooked on TQ's music in order for him to come to Seattle? Hahaha. I'm 21 now so perform at a club! I can go!). And it's just like TQ said in one of his interviews (Thanks to Mauzip for bringing that up in the new Holland interview!):

'Like protons and neutrons, life is about positives and negatives, little pluses and minuses. If you cover up the minuses, then the pluses don't mean sh!t.'


Josh

[kunta]

Did TQ really say that???

DAMN... sounds like sum sh!t I would say!

But yeh... TQ's old stuff was clearly controlled & overseen by people who didnt appreciate the music aspect of it

I think LISTEN is a good album though... in terms of it being more 'him'... if u know what I mean

N I have liked a couple of his collabs... e.g.

. When I Get Out
. I Remember
. Baby Girl (TQ's part makes that song)

But 4 the most part... his collabs jus dont do it 4 me

his part is usually good but the people he's with usually fu?k it up... e.g. E-40, Layzie Bone & P-Nut

[Maudizzle]

I agree with Joshua here and I don't see how the production on Gone But Not Forgotten was less than great to be honest. Daily is after Keep It On The Low my least favorite TQ track (the Greeny's Mix is the sh!t though) and. TQ doesn't like that track either. A lot of people love it though, so it was a good choise for it to be the first single of The Second Coming... but that's the case with most singles. Really, how many good tracks are there in the charts? I'd say 80% of all first singles are the weakest on the album.

About the collaborations... he was signed with Cash Money for three years, of course he did stuff with the Big Tymers. Actually, there is no TQ featuring Big Tymers song available, except for if you count Mr. Do Right and Keep It On The Low, which are both average IMO as well. They were never released though, so they don't count That track with Ja Rule ain't my favorite TQ track, but that sure is Ja Rule's best verse ever. E-40 and Layzie Bone both did great jobs on the songs they were on IMO.

And then there are tracks where TQ completely makes the song. I name a How It Be. I name an Ice Cold. I name a Way Of Life. I name a For All My Hustlers. I name a Gangsta Nigga. If you look at TQ's career from that point of view, Cash Money wasn't a bad period in TQ's career.

[Joshua]

Mauzip - Yeah, that's what I meant... thanks for clearing it up a little more. TQ's parts on the Big Tymer's songs are what make the song, in my opinion too... as long as you can phase out some of the other voices. Baby just sounds like he's looking out his window and rapping about his cars/houses/jewelry and that is kinda hard to listen to because once you start paying attention to the actual words and not how it flows with the beat, you realize that you don't relate at all with what he's saying (unless, you ARE rich and living lavish, Mauzip) Wasn't "Keep It On The Low" released as a single? I thought I've seen some on eBay, but maybe they were bootlegs. I agree with you too on how Cash Money wasn't a bad period of his career. He got his name out a little more (I'm guessing mostly in the South) and he got paid for what he did (although from his latest interview, it seems the screwed him over on a couple of deals... I'm a$suming this happens a lot in the music business though). But hey, I gotta admit that those collabos held me over until "Listen" came out, even if I was only feeling TQ's parts. ;D

I'm gonna have to confess and say that everytime I listen to "Gone But Not Forgotten," I start to get a little choked up. Even though it's a song singing about specific people/musicians, it speaks volumes because everyone can relate to a loved one who's pa$sed on. Not only that, but it's also kinda therapeutical to wonder what they're doing in heaven.

Mauzip, if you know where I could get any piano sheet music for any of TQ's songs, specifically "Gone But Not Forgotten" and/or "Better Days," that'd be awesome. My summer's gonna be really boring because I'm stuck taking a summer cla$s... and I can't always rely on Washington State's weather to kick it outside.

Josh

[Maudizzle]

Keep It On The Low was a single, yes, but it has never been commercially released. There are promo singles of it though.

I have looked for sheet music before without any luck. Maybe if you send TQ a message about it he can help you out.

But to talk about Listen again... Why do I never hear people say anything about Angela Jones? The lyrics are deep and it's one of my favorite TQ tracks. That song is really underappreciated IMO.

[Joshua]

Man, I'll just say it like this... I'm feeling every song on the album, except maybe "What You Got" and "Right On" (I probably outplayed it when I first got ahold of it, haha). Everything else is gold.

[kunta]

Yo... I never said the production on Gone But Not Forgotten Was Bad (I thought it was well put togeather)

The problem with Angela Jones is the production... it's slept on cuz it aint kind to the ears... the lyrics are good n the song is good... the production is weak... sounds like he made it in his bedroom

N most of his work with rappers is whack... If only he cud work wit LL or sum1 smooth like dat... dat might work

Id hav loved to hear TQ & PAC that sh!t wud hav been off the hook

[SoulStar]

joshua said:

Mauzip, if you know where I could get any piano sheet music for any of TQ's songs, specifically "Gone But Not Forgotten" and/or "Better Days," that'd be awesome.

Josh

I've been after sheet music for TQ's songs for ages... if anyone has any luck lemme know! cheers

[lilheartq]

supadiva01 said:

jayspee said:

Usher is a better dancer, no doubt, but i think that its a matter of opinion who is a better singer, usher's vocals have only been strong his last 2 discs, T's vocal talent is a lot less coached and more natural, Usher has had so many voice lessons its untrue. Both great singers, but i think the remake of Adore shows who is the superior vocalist.

I agree

On the real Usher good and all but his voice just can't keep my attention like T's.

[Maudizzle]

kunta said:

Yo... I never said the production on Gone But Not Forgotten Was Bad (I thought it was well put togeather)

Nobody said you did

About Angela Jones... it's a heartfelt song. You can hear that in the way it's sung and it's a hard song to sing actually. I'm one of those people that sings under the shower. This is one of my favorite tracks to sing cause it's hard to sing I think the production of the song is good, although I prefer the OG version.

[absinthe`]

kunta said:

How about: Weak Production? I was listenin to Daily earlier & what the fu©k was that keybord noise in the background?... It sounded like a fu©kin child was playin it!

If you're over the age of 16 and/or live inside the united states you would remember this beat. It's an old Biz Markie song that's considered one the cla$sic old school hip hop songs. The song had big radio airplay where I was and the album didn't even come out.

As far as songs from TNSMC. Those songs I would say TQ had more freedom than any project yet besides Listen.

I don't think Bye Bye Baby would have made any sense without the gunshots... that's what the song is about. Better Days could have done without it's gunshot skit.

No artist sounds as good on collab's as on one their own songs cuz obviously.... it's not their song... they r a guest appearance....... Any hip hop rnb artist that didnt do collab's would seem egotystical to me.

E40 and layzie Bone are hood legends. If u aint from round here u wouldnt understand I guess. e40 and bone been bumpin thru my radio stations constantly since early 90's.

I'll say the same thing bout most those type artists he works with.

About the people like Big Tymers and Juve talkin bout they money cars, teeth, etc..... Everybody wants money, cars, clothes, and fine bit?hes..... whether u got any or not. Music is somethin to entertain u with. like movies. if u cant listen to a song cuz its about fast cars and money then i dont see how u can watch a movie about fast cars and money. Unless u one them bleeding heart fu?kers that takes every piece of music like it's supposed 2 make your heart full and get you teary eyed....

fu?k that dude, i listen to music all day every day. i listen to rap, rnb, rock, metal, raprock, alternative... sometimes i like comedy, sometimes i like crunk, sometimes i like the sh!t that makes you think. I'm a universal type person. I can relate to anyone. if the music is good, no matter who is on it or what it's about. i can relate. i'm partial to nathan.

Ja Rule is a fake a$s Pac wanna be. Even tho he has some dope songs.

Angela Jones = great lyrics, great story, weak/boring beat.

there's two of my opinions. To add 2 all the ones that's in this topic.